Following the thread… learning what i can… curious to see where it leads… cant ofder much technical insight… but getting there
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Support, giving and pledging rewards is conducive to more people participating, and it is also more conducive to expanding influence
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I agree with Pepito here, I’m a staker/voter on Cosmos ECO and sometimes I just vote because I’m hoping for an airdrop. Don’t wish to see Pyth becoming the same, I care for this project and I believe most people would only vote to get reward benefits. I’m not agains stakers getting something back, but I don’t believe voting should have anything to do with it. I also liked the part about then longer you stake more vote power you have.
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Thank you very much.
I pereonally believe that we can never avoid the people who essentially want to “farm rewards” without hurting the people who actually do want to contribute (by basically not giving them the rewards they deserve) . In the end of the day I think that even if people do be voting sometimes just to get rewarded they still have to somewhat express their opinion on a certain topic even if they didnt fully dive into the details like others.
I also believe that delegated voting like what wormhole just did could fit here just as well where people delegate ONLY their eligible votes, not their actual tokens, to somebody to vote for them and they get rewarded for themselves. This way there will be more votes coming from people eho actually dive into the topics and not just farming rewards and also each individual will still be in ownership of this tokens so that he couldnt be hurt due to a 3rd party bad actions or anything like this.
But thats for another topic I guess
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Heres the addition to the proposal to improve it and encourage longer term staking
…
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I may have missed it, sorry lots of reading. Does one of the epoch’s need to be over the course of the token unlock? I think this would be a good incentive to reward those that stuck through all the FUD.
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Are you really making any sense? Pyth price didn’t drop? What is the ATH price compared to the current price?
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I really just want to understand why people here are kicking against voting rewards. Even if you don’t get anything out of it, you really shouldn’t kick against it. You are not minting or unlocking new tokens to pay stakers, so what’s wrong with adding them to the already unlocked tokens as one of the contributors to the network? Staking itself is a way of ‘securing the network’. Don’t they stakers deserve a reward for doing that just like other contributors?Locked staking is supposed to come with its rewards, not just because it’s helping secure and governance the network but also because it helps lock a large amount of current circulating supply away.
If the network wasn’t looking to reward governance participants, there shouldn’t have been locked staking. People should have been able to stake and unstake at any time, while participating in governance or it should have simply been the Tally style where you delegate voting powers but still have the tokens in your wallet. From the way I see it, it would be most unfair to ignore a particular component of the network, while rewarding even non participants in the name of grants. And besides, whatever you do with the unlocked tokens, whoever it ends up with will still do whatever they want with it. Fearing for a drop in price because you give droplets to stakers weekly while giving away thousands and millions to groups and/or individuals as grants only makes you live in denial. The same people who are receiving the grants and rewards can still dump it for their own reasons. If there is anything that should be up for debate here, it should be about working out a model that works for the network while rewarding stakers. Shutting stakers completely out is never a good way of rewarding participation.
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we are at 33% of ATH so yes seen a huge drop…in line with the median market but definitely not one of the better performers
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Thanks this is interesting an interesting proposal.
Would be good to know what happens with current ecosystem rewards and how taking 10% away would effect both price of and development on PYTH.
I prefer airdrop rewards to be honest. For PYTH staking rewards think instead of giving rewards that may be sold perhaps we could allow stakers to determine who receives their share of the ecosystem rewards which may enable these stakers to potentially become eligible for additional airdrops
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Encouraging active participation in governance presents an ongoing challenge, even within the most established DAOS.
Figure 1: Voting participation across DAOs
While the proposed solution aims to address this issue by offering direct incentives (.1% of staked amount per vote), it has the following drawbacks:
- The incentive structure encourages minimal effort voting since only the act of voting is considered.
- It disproportionately benefits larger holders, as rewards are directly proportional to Pyth Stake. E.g. A holder with 1k Pyth will earn only 1 Pyth per vote (Not enough to promote thoughtful voting)
Additionally, Pyth is at an important point as the DAO will soon start earning revenue from implementations such priced oracle updates and OEV capture. We believe it’s better to distribute this revenue to stakers rather than diluting the supply and distributing pyth. Therefore we propose an interim solution via a delegation program.
The primary objective of this program is to enable any interested user to secure delegation from the DAO and earn Pyth for active governance participation. The program’s structure is outlined as follows:
- Application Process: Any user can apply to become a Pyth Delegate by posting in a delegate application thread, providing background, and outlining their goals for Pyth DAO. This process is deliberately designed to be inclusive and open to all. To qualify as a delegate, applicants must commit to achieving an 80% voting participation rate and provide transparent explanations for their voting decisions in via a delegate rational thread.
- Delegation Allocation: Upon approval, each user will receive a delegation of 50-100k Pyth from the DAO (This is open to debate and will depend on number of applicants). The rewards structure mirrors that proposed in this thread, with each vote earning a user .05% of their delegated amount. To be eligible for rewards, Delegates must maintain an 80% voting participation rate and consistently engage with their delegate platforms.
- Pilot Program: To ensure effectiveness and adaptability, we propose initially implementing a pilot program for a period of three months. At the conclusion of this trial period, Delegates can discuss how to improve the initiative for long-term sustainability.
By incorporating requirements for voting rationales, we mitigate the risk of users merely seeking to exploit incentives through randomly voting. The allocation of Pyth Delegation ensures both stakeholder diversity in voting and alleviates concerns about Pyth holdings acting as a barrier to DAO participation. The purpose of delegation application is not to be restrictive - rather to ensure committed applicants are rewarded equally.
As it is a pilot program, based on projections this would be a low cost initiative for the DAO.
Figure 2: Projected Delegation amount and Cost
The process would be as follows:
- Temperature Check for delegate incentive program - if this gains enough traction we will create a stand alone post.
- If the Temperature Check is successful, the delegate application thread is posted and applicants have 1 week to apply. Applicants are accepted by default but low effort proposals can be exempted by the DAO.
- Rewards are paid out on the first of every month to delegates complying with requirements.
We look forward to hearing your thoughts and potentially spearheading this program.
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It’s actually around 67% down, according to Coingecko. I’m wondering who they blame for that here. Believe me, if staking rewards came during that hype period, there is no way the price would ever go below $0.5 or even $0.7. People are unstaking and selling for an obvious reason that they don’t want to admit.
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Lol…some people are against staking rewards and you think they would accept another airdrop? I’m sure they won’t allow that.
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Thats indeed a very good idea but I would recommend doing a few things differently.
First, I dont really understand the need to give 50k or 100k pyth to certain individuals for them to vote and I believe that if people would simply be able to delegate their votes to people who want to serve as delegates it would make much more sense.
I believe that a program where anybody can be a delegate and anybody and delegate their votes to someone else would be a way to face the problem of people who just cluelessly vote to get rewarded.
I also believe the voting rewards system should remain as I proposed numbers wise but with the addition of people being able to delegate their votes to a person of their choise who they trust. This way every staker would get his deserved rewards and every person who voted or delegated to someone who voted will also get their rewards. People’s rewards will be given to them individually and everyone will have to collect their own reward from the website
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We definitely agree that everyone should be able to delegate their votes. However, offering rewards to users who delegate to active voters has the same drawbacks as the original proposal: users will simply delegate to those with 100% voting participation to maximize rewards, regardless of whether they agree with the delegate’s vision. This means that, instead of indifferently voting on proposals to maximize their rewards, they will indifferently delegate to delegates with high voting percentages for the same reason.
Also, establishing a staking reward system is a tricky process. Once you set incentives, it becomes very difficult to roll them back (e.g., switching from 10% APY in native tokens to 5% paid in USDC, or reducing APY because it is too aggressive).
We have an opportunity to develop something innovative since we are starting from scratch. Incentives for most staking models can be considered unsuccessful so far, and spending time to ideate a unique system is a worthwhile investment.
The reasons for our delegation approach of 50k-100k Pyth are as follows:
- It creates an initial pilot program that offers incentives to those who choose to participate.
- The incentives will not discriminate against smaller holders and will align with thoughtful and considerate voting.
- In the future, once all users are able to delegate, these active members will be prioritised due to having a track record and already delegated tokens.
It is important to note that this doesn’t mean long-term staking rewards plans can’t be made concurrently with the delegate incentives running. In fact, this delegate program would set the stage and create an active group of incentivised members to discuss topics like this.
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Nice idea, Implementing staking and voting rewards can drive PYTH ecosystem growth by attracting more participants and maintaining engagement without causing token inflation.
Anti-Abuse Measures could work for it, plus we can add locking PYTH for 3,6,9,12 m:
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I’ll have to disagree with you on the first part as many people do want to contribute to the ecosystem but dont have enough time to dedicate for actually going through everything and taking part in all the votes and that issue has to be addressed. In my opinion delegated voting to somebody they trust is a very logical way to do that where every person who wants others to delegate him tokens will write an explanation that includes his adress details and why does that person thinks others should delegate him tokens.
In addition, there will not be any need to adjust the staking rewards as they distributed over a defined period of time where every distribution includes a constant amount of tokens where the difference is the amount of stakers at a given time. Therefore, more stakers will result less rewards for each one and less stakers will result more rewards. The numbers were chosen by calculation of the future circulating supply, current supply, and the yet to unlock supply distribution.
Saying staking models are unsuccessful is a conpletely subjective thing and while you can say they arent working as well others will say they are perfect and super successful and neither of you is wrong because that specifically is a matter of opinion
And one last thing, I personally dont think a person with 100k staked and a person with 1k staked should have the same voting impact and power. A person who put more money in should in my opinion have more power, at least in the base layer of it. With delegated votes a person with a little amount of tokens staked could have the same power of somebody with larger amounts of tokens if people are convinced that he is working in their favor. Not to mention that if we use this model, the power of voters will come from the community and from people who trust the delegate
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I think I am the perfect example of the proposal of providing rewards for Governance and staking. I love Pyth and Pyth discord vibe but unfortunately due to real life I have not time to participate in it. In order to support the project, I bought a large bag and I am staking it, also voted in all the proposals. Obviously, if that is not compensated somehow I might unstake, not because I dont believe in Pyth, it is because people been active in discord dont risk their tokens/bags, while I risk my tokens but not having them in my wallet. I have a large bag of pyth btw bought early days.
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I forgot to add coment about IO airdrop, it was also based on discord roles and not pyth holders, stakers, DAO in my opinion disincentivizing that part of the pyth ecosystem. There is already a large bag of Pyth to grow its ecosystem for marketing, social media or even Pyth interactions but so far not much for DAO, Stakers.
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Sir I will try doing my best for people exactly like you who want to support the project but dont always have the time to do so.
I believe I am gonna add the option to delegate votes to someone else in this proposal so that people like you would still be able to support the project and actually get rewarded for that.
Maybe implementing a system that includes a max staked tokens cap to be a delegate will also be in that addition so that people with over a certain amount of tokens will not be able to function as delegates in order to prevent the DAO from becoming centralized. They would be able to vote with their full amount of tokens but they wont be able to recieve additional votes from others.
Tell me what do you think about this model
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